Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism - Revision history

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Mahra at 15:45, 31 October 2008

Mahra — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:45:28 GMT

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	Here's the way my thought has progressed. There have been three stages (not unlike childhood, adolescence and maturity).		Here's the way my thought has progressed. There have been three stages (not unlike childhood, adolescence and maturity).

-	First I saw that every baptism recorded in the Bible was the baptism of an adult who had professed faith in Christ. Nowhere in Scripture is there any instance of an infant being baptized. The "household baptisms" (mentioned in Acts 16:15, 33 and 1 Corinthians 1:16 are exceptions to this only if one ''assumes'' that the "household" included infants. But, in fact, Luke steers us away from this assumption in Act 16:32 by saying that Paul first "spoke the word of the Lord. . .to all that were in his [the jailer's] house," and then baptized them.	+	First I saw that every baptism recorded in the Bible was the baptism of an adult who had professed faith in Christ. Nowhere in Scripture is there any instance of an infant being baptized. The "household baptisms" (mentioned in Acts 16:15, 33 and 1 Corinthians 1:16 are exceptions to this only if one ''assumes'' that the "household" included infants. But, in fact, Luke steers us away from this assumption in Act 16:32 by saying that Paul first "spoke the word of the Lord. . .to all that were in his [the jailer's] house," and then baptized them.

	Besides the absence of infant baptism in Scripture, I also notice (as every Baptist schoolboy knows) that the order of Peter's command was "''Repent'', and be baptized" (Acts 2:38). I saw no reason ever to reverse the order.		Besides the absence of infant baptism in Scripture, I also notice (as every Baptist schoolboy knows) that the order of Peter's command was "''Repent'', and be baptized" (Acts 2:38). I saw no reason ever to reverse the order.

JoyaTeemer at 22:11, 22 September 2008

JoyaTeemer — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:11:23 GMT

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	And these are the ones who should receive the sign of the covenant: believer baptism. So if I could go back and do Bavaria again, I would get to the root in a hurry. This is where our "defense and confirmation" will be won or lost. But the Lord brings us through childhood, adolescence and maturity for a reason. Every stage of reasoning is useful. Know your audience, brothers, and magnify the meaning of baptism.		And these are the ones who should receive the sign of the covenant: believer baptism. So if I could go back and do Bavaria again, I would get to the root in a hurry. This is where our "defense and confirmation" will be won or lost. But the Lord brings us through childhood, adolescence and maturity for a reason. Every stage of reasoning is useful. Know your audience, brothers, and magnify the meaning of baptism.
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Bhkauflin at 17:23, 3 July 2008

Bhkauflin — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:23:01 GMT

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-	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Brothers, We Are Not Professionals\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of paedobaptism.	+	{{info}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of paedobaptism.

	But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.		But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.

Bhkauflin at 16:09, 20 June 2008

Bhkauflin — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:09:54 GMT

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-	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= ~~Articles 1995~~\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of paedobaptism.	+	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Brothers, We Are Not Professionals\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of paedobaptism.

	But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.		But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.

Bhkauflin at 15:59, 16 June 2008

Bhkauflin — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:59:44 GMT

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-	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Articles 1995\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of ~~patobaptism~~.	+	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Articles 1995\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of paedobaptism.

	But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.		But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.

Bhkauflin at 15:59, 16 June 2008

Bhkauflin — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:59:18 GMT

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:59, 16 June 2008
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-	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Articles 1995\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of ~~pedobaptism~~.	+	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God\|other=\|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 \|newtitle= Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism \|series= Articles 1995\|topic=Church Leadership \|subtopic=Pastoral Ministry \|month=January \|day=1 \|year=1995}}I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of patobaptism.

	But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.		But now I have come to see that the "battle of Bavaria" was fought at the wrong level. Since coming to Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, I have taught about ten four-week membership classes. Almost every time, there have been Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians or Covenanters or the like who were "baptized" as infants but want to join our church. Month by month my understanding of why I accept believer baptism has increased. And now I see that I never got to the root in Bavaria.

Bhkauflin at 15:59, 16 June 2008

Bhkauflin — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:59:06 GMT

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CharisGalbraith at 21:52, 6 February 2008

CharisGalbraith — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:52:07 GMT

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	{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God \|date= 1 January 1995 \|other= \|categorytopic= Pastoral Ministry \|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 }}		{{MasterHeader \|author= John Piper \|partnerurl= http://www.desiringgod.org \|partner= Desiring God \|date= 1 January 1995 \|other= \|categorytopic= Pastoral Ministry \|mediatype= Article \|lang= English \|editor= n/a \|translator= n/a \|levels= 0 }}

-	=== Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism ===	+	== Brothers, Magnify the Meaning of Baptism ==
-		+
-	~~By John Piper~~	+
-		+
-	~~January 1, 1995~~	+

	I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of pedobaptism.		I recall a beautiful day in 1973. Prof. Leonhard Goppelt had invited his university seminar on baptism to a retreat south of Munich in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps. He was Lutheran and I was the lone American - and a Baptist. We met in a monastery and for several hours debated the issue of infant baptism vs. Believer baptism. It was a two-man show: sort of a David and Goliath affair. Only there were no Baptist Israelites cheering me on. Nor did Professor Goppelt fall. But to this day I believe the flight of my stones was true and that only the impervious power of a 17-century tradition protected the bastion of pedobaptism.

Kathyyee at 03:14, 11 December 2007

Kathyyee — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:14:19 GMT

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	Of course Romans 6:1-11 came to mind. But this was Professor Goppelt's favorite weapon, because it contains not a word about faith or about any conscious response to God until verse 11; and there the response came ''after'' baptism. So he uses Roman 6 as the classic defense of infant baptism. To me it goes either way in isolation.		Of course Romans 6:1-11 came to mind. But this was Professor Goppelt's favorite weapon, because it contains not a word about faith or about any conscious response to God until verse 11; and there the response came ''after'' baptism. So he uses Roman 6 as the classic defense of infant baptism. To me it goes either way in isolation.

-	But Colossians 2:12 and 1 Peter 3:21 seemed to me to be devastating to the pedobaptist viewpoint. Paul compares baptism with circumcision and says, "You were buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." This says clearly: ''in baptism''we are raised ''through faith''. Baptism is effectual as an expression of faith. I did not see how an infant could properly accept this sign of faith.	+	But Colossians 2:12 and 1 Peter 3:21 seemed to me to be devastating to the pedobaptist viewpoint. Paul compares baptism with circumcision and says, "You were buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." This says clearly: ''in baptism'' we are raised ''through faith''. Baptism is effectual as an expression of faith. I did not see how an infant could properly accept this sign of faith.

-	Then 1 Peter 3:21 said, "Baptism. . . saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." This text frightens many Baptists away because it seems to come close to the Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican notion that the rite in and of itself saves. But in fleeing from this text we throw away a powerful argument for believer baptism. For as J.D.G. Dunn says, this is the closest thing we have to a definition which includes ''faith~~'''~~''.~~'''~~Baptism is "an appeal to God." That is, baptism is the cry of faith to God. In that sense and to ''that~~''''~~''degree, it is part of God's means of salvation. This should not scare us off any more than the sentence, "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord. . . you will be saved." The movement of the lips in the air and the movement of the body in water save only in the sense that they express the appeal and faith of the heart toward God.~~'''~~	+	Then 1 Peter 3:21 said, "Baptism. . . saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." This text frightens many Baptists away because it seems to come close to the Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican notion that the rite in and of itself saves. But in fleeing from this text we throw away a powerful argument for believer baptism. For as J.D.G. Dunn says, this is the closest thing we have to a definition which includes ''faith''. Baptism is "an appeal to God." That is, baptism is the cry of faith to God. In ''that'' sense and to ''that'' degree, it is part of God's means of salvation. This should not scare us off any more than the sentence, "If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord. . . you will be saved." The movement of the lips in the air and the movement of the body in water save only in the sense that they express the appeal and faith of the heart toward God.

	So it seemed to me that Colossians 2:12 and 1 Peter 3:21 sewed up the case against baptizing infants who could not yet believe in Christ or appeal to God.		So it seemed to me that Colossians 2:12 and 1 Peter 3:21 sewed up the case against baptizing infants who could not yet believe in Christ or appeal to God.